An Owl's 2 hoots

Tuesday, June 07, 2005

Is it an anomaly in Tamil?

When transliterating in tamil, why do people replace the 'L' by 'zh'?

Note: Bear with me, I still have not figured out how to blog in Tamil.

For example, supply is written as suppzhai, clinton as czhinton.

I remember one of my tamil grammar teachers explaining the reason, which I either forgot, or did not convince me. I mean, tamil has la, zha, and Zha. So, what is the problem in writing clinton (english) as clinton (tamil) itself?

I sent a question to some tamil magazine where I used the above convention, and the editor promply changed my question to the older format!

This has been puzzling me for quite some time now. Any one can see through it?

Updated at 8:20 PM: Thanks for the unicode link, thennavan. While I am fiddling with it, have a look at this image.


clinton or czhinton? Posted by Hello courtesy: Kumudam.

posted by tt_giant at 1:26 PM

15 Comments:

  • I am hearing about it for the first time (probably because I have not had any "editor" experiences so far :-))

    I would say other than where "ழ" is really needed, there is absolutely no reason to use it instead of something else like "ல" or "ள". In case you want to write in Thamizh thru English, you can use this site (courtesy of tringtring.blogspot.com "Adengappa" Prabhu): http://www.jaffnalibrary.de/tools/Unicode.htm

    By Blogger Krish, at June 07, 2005 4:57 PM  

  • I've never seen La being replaced by Zha. Actually, it is the other way round.

    Zha most of the times replaced by La, thats when many people are pronouncing it.

    By Blogger KRTY, at June 07, 2005 5:18 PM  

  • Check out the image I just posted. this was taken from a magazine I was reading.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 07, 2005 5:23 PM  

  • I think we were not on the same page, previously. What I meant was, when people write clinton in tamil, they dont use LA, they use ZHA.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 07, 2005 5:25 PM  

  • I've seen anyone write like that? I am surprised to read your blog.! Ummm. Any examples? Any websites that write like what you've said?

    By Blogger Narayanan Venkitu, at June 07, 2005 11:41 PM  

  • Narayanan: The image which I have attached in this post is one such example. I have seen SEVERAL, infact, look for ANY instance where there is a "L" in the english word, and look at its corresponding transliteration (in tamil). *muttai sapzhai* (for muttai supply), *malayazham* (for malayalam), i can go on and on.

    Again, read the *words* as if they were written in tamil.

    I shall find more references and post it.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 08, 2005 6:02 AM  

  • How do people write deepavali, kerala in tamil?

    - with a zh not a L.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 08, 2005 6:06 AM  

  • Surprisingly, pongal is written the same way in tamil. Maybe because pongal is infact a native tamil word.

    An inverse "anomaly" exists in mizhagu thanni, transliterated as muligatawny in english, which I can understand since there is no zh, or Zh sounds in proper english.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 08, 2005 6:12 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 08, 2005 6:16 AM  

  • thennavan, in your Metraas baashai post, notice how you have written BLOG in tamil.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 08, 2005 6:21 AM  

  • As thennavan had mentioned, I found Jaffnalibrary.de very useful for my postings... hope you will enjoy the same.

    By Blogger Ram C, at June 11, 2005 9:23 AM  

  • I am not getting it.....I saw that poster and ZHA is not there..

    here is what is there...

    1) the name in tamil for Clinton is written using 5 padhams....

    கி - sounds Ki
    ளி - sounds Li with more stress on the L
    ண் --
    ட - sounds "ta"
    ன் --

    none of the "Zh" sounds like
    ழ், ழ, ழா, ழி, ழீ, ழு, ழூ , ழெ, ழே, ழொ, ழோ,
    have featured in that writing...

    so, what are you talking about?

    By Blogger Ganesh Venkittu, at June 16, 2005 8:22 AM  

  • ganesh: i am afraid i was ignornat in the usage of zha.

    my question is very simple..

    if "ல" is available, why use "ள" in clinton?

    And, do you think people who do not know english language, would pronounce ளி as Li?

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 16, 2005 10:59 AM  

  • tt,

    Tamizh as it evolved was not a sound based language, it was a script based language...if you read "nan nool soothiraam", it has pages and pages of rules how to form words....let me give below..

    நன்னூல் சூத்திரம் -- one among a zillion rules is "ல ள வேற்றுமையில் றடவும்"....

    example: கல்பித்தான் -->கற்பித்தான்

    in this manner, tamil evolved...so coming to your question.....neither லி nor ளி will give the exact stress as is on that name Clinton....but ளி comes closer.....

    if you say the words புலி ,
    புளி which one of those "Li" sounds closely rhymes with the name Clinton as we say it?

    By Blogger Ganesh Venkittu, at June 16, 2005 2:01 PM  

  • Wow Ganesh: that makes a lot of sense. guess i was not paying enough attention to my grammar class. thanks a lot for clarifying it.

    By Blogger tt_giant, at June 16, 2005 3:05 PM  

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